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2nd wines from cru classes or domaines


#21

La Croix de Beaucailloux 2003 was excellent. Pavillon Rouge 2004 continues to be excellent. I think these are the only two I have knowingly bought so that’s two out of two for us. Also have drunk Alter Ego de Ch. Palmer 2004 courtesy of my brother - alongside the Pav. rouge - and that was also a lovely wine.


#22

Alter Ego is a completely different wine…so not really a second…and thats their words

The 1st is approx 47% merlot and Cab Sauvignon with 6% P.Verdot. The Alter Ego is approx 50% merlot, 35% Cab Sauvignon and 15% P.Verdot

The 1st is 20-22 months in 60/70% new oak with AE 16 -18 months in 30/40% new oak

They say drinking window is 5 to 10 years after vintage for the AE


#23

Stand corrected on that one then :blush: we drank it in 2017 so that would be three years past it’s window. It was lovely.


#24

Will say I have a bottle of Alter Ego bought from Sainsbury’s of all things! I’ve forever kicked mnyself for not picking up more than one bottle! Think it was something like £20 about 10 years ago! I did recently see the THIRD wine of Chateau Margaux retailing for a fair chunk of money!


#25

i’ve done the same a few of times -
Tesco cleared Suduiraut at £5 per half…bought two from a shelf of 6 :man_facepalming:
Pintia in Costco at half retail - bought a few…then realised its my favourite from V.S !

the best 3rd i’ve found is Pauillac de Latour


#26

Pav Rouge however…thats a very nice wine drunk all mine :frowning:


#27

Sainsbury’s were, in the day, a great source of second wines. For several years in the 1980s they regularly offered Les Forts de Latour at a price that, even allowing for inflation, would seem incredible now.

I’d champion Lacoste Borie (the second wine of Grand Puy Lacoste) classic Paulliac style at a good price. In 2018 it looks very good value compared to some “cru bourgeois” Chateau the have greatly increased their prices…


#28

2nd wine, of a 2ieme cru classe. Had a bottle last week & thought it was excellent, very drinkable now (35% merlot) and I imagine will continue to improve with further aging. Sorry cant tell you how it compares to the grand cru - my wallet isnt that fat. Ribeye steak, frites, green salad and you have a feast.


#29

La Croix de Beaucaillou is not a “second” wine but a wine in its own right from a designated vineyard.


#30

I know this thread is a couple of years old now, but I still think it’s worth pointing out that many chateaux these days regard their second (and probably third) wines as different lines, rather than just declassified grands crus.

Typically this may mean a very different blend of grapes - often much more merlot in Médoc wines. Likewise the winemaking style may be different. That may carry the advantage of making them more early-maturing, but you do need to be aware of the fact if you have a preference for or against a particular grape in the blend.

But these factors are in the hands of each chateau individually.


#31

So to go back to my original claim to have tasted three second wines, that is now revised down to one - unless someone is about to tell me that Pav Rouge isn’t a second wine either in which case have I tasted zero second wines! :joy:


#32

It does make you wonder if the “second” wine is the wine the winemaker would like to make in comparison to the “first” wine in which tradition dictates how it’s made.


#33

Interesting thought…


#34

As another example… in 2018 La Dame de Montrose is 52% Merlot, 39% Cabernet Sauvignon, 4% Cabernet Franc, 5% Petit Verdot, while Montrose is 72% Cabernet Sauvignon, 20% Merlot, 6% Cabernet Franc, 2% Petit Verdot… so yes, completely different wines.


#35

It certainly could be! Though I suspect if that happens it’s more likely to occur in the S. Rhone, where some super-cuvées look like they were made to garner 100-point scores from certain critics. Maybe a couple of St. Emilions might be like that.


#36

It’s also a brilliant wine and whilst slightly expensive, I do find it very good value.

Separately I find Angludet wonderful and while not a second wine it is produced by the owners of Chateau Palmer to great standards.


#37

Definitely - I have no idea who actually drink these megawines from Pegau et al, but the pricing and label design suggest there is a strong element of rating chasing.


#38

the Angludet / Palmer connection is really only through ownership by the SIchels…to best of my knowledge (having been to both properties) there is no real cross-over at all wrt the wine


#39

It’s interesting how positively most in this thread seem to view the second wines. I’d had the impression that they are viewed with a little disdain by some in the community but that’s certainly not the impression I’m getting here. A fact which, given I have drunk and liked quite a few second wines, I find rather reassuring.


#40

There is a distinction Mike between second wines and second labels, there is a difference but not many people know that, I looked for an old explanation of this but could not find it, but this one is quite good…