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J L Chave Hermitage Rouge 2015


I think they made it not sold out by restricting quantities and @Taffy-on-Tour called in the process. I also saw it was sold out and thought it’s gone, then someone said it is back in stock… that is when I ordered.



Maybe I was unclear.
It seemed a little strange to me that a wine could be sold out in around 90 minutes.
I thought it worth the price of a call to inquire quite how that could happen.
The “sold out” to “allocation” happened whilst I was on the line.
Maybe the lesson is, if one notices anything that does not quite compute, ring in and ask. The staff are invariably helpful and do their best to answer any queries or kick the question "upstairs!"
When I started this thread, I did intimate that there was a story.
You now know what I know.


While I’m gutted to have missed this, I 'm happy it seems that there has been some fairness in the distribution and it has been in the spirit of The Society

Hope all that got some really enjoy them (in 20 years when they’re ready)! :sunglasses:

This has made me really look into the details of EP so; bye bye bank balance!


Single bottles would definitely be the way to go here - much less attractive for anyone looking to turn them for profit. On the bright side I see that the 2015 is 14.5% which is pretty heavy going.


Based on what Taffy has said, I think that subsequent to realising the problem every effort has been made which is very much in line with the Society’s values. But an EP style allocation would be fairer in the future to avoid this issue.

Hey, it’s all just fermented grape juice at the end of the day - and nearly time to open something nice. Cheers!


Hi LNierop

Without wishing to get into a protracted discussion, in the 1990’s for example many CH9dP’s were say 13.5 -14.5% on their label. This was pure nonsense, (even Hans Christian Anderson fantasy land) one wine I measured with a lab quality hydrometer with the appropriate tables and it was 16.5% by vol. I’ve worked in labs all of my career. Some Rhone wines I’ve tasted “hot” indicating a high alcohol level, some not so but still were 15.5%. A great winemaker can produce a wine with “high” alcohol and you would never know it, with others it stands out like a sore thumb. Some hot climate wines have had to me, a baked component which I abhor. Some hot vintages such as Bordeaux 2003, I have never really got on with, which is a shame since I have some in cellar!
I have never got hung up on alcohol levels, preferring the wines and their winemakers to speak for themselves.


I concur 100% with your assertion regarding “fermented grape juice,” on one hand we must be idiots paying what we do for some bottles.
On the other hand when you’ve just tasted “as good as it gets,” price seems to recede into the wide blue yonder, and sense takes flight right out of the window.

When I tasted my first "great "wine, I was truly dumbstruck, and that happens very rarely to the Welsh, as is well known that we would always use 10 words rather than the singular! lol!


Really interesting


…and you’re right - it rarely happens to us Welsh


Might someone from TWS respond on the points raised in this thread please? Having spent a lot of money on TWS wines in the last couple of years, I for one would be interested to know how or why the decision was made not to allocate this particular wine, and if there are other similar releases planned in the pipeline? It would also be helpful to know if TWS might consider re-allocating in the interests of fairness and TWS values as other member suggested on this thread.


@Taffy-on-Tour - I wasn’t meaning to demean Chave or indeed wines based on a fairly arbitrary measure and you’re right on how measures are often inaccurate. My point was more that I like lower alcohol wines on the table - I can drink more and don’t suffer the next day!


If you Sir, prefer to have lower alcohol level wines on your table, then that’s fair enough.
I just get on with it and take the consequences.
My doctor these days is pleased with my annual liver function test.
In a safety critical job in the oil industry, that test was always part of the 1/2/3 year medical!
Never a bad idea to ask your GP to do one.
After the last one, he told me that mine was better than his!!
These days I only consume 2-3 bottles per week.


Dear All,
TWS seem to have some 2011 and 2012 Chave Hermitage available - maybe lesser vintages but still 8/10 so I probably couldn’t tell anyway…


Vinous scores by Josh Raynolds
Chave Hermitage
2011 94-95
2012 94-95
2015 97
Josh tends to score lower than most reviewers.

Jeb Dunnuck (latterly The Wine Advocate Rhone chief taster)now has his own site
Chave Hermitage
2015 98-100 with the descriptor “has perfection written all over it!”

John Livingstone-Learmonth (formerly Decanter Rhone expert 40+ years tasting experience)
Chave Hermitage
2011 5 stars
2012 4.5 stars
2015 6 stars, SIX! Rarely handed out and as good as it gets!

Hope this helps.


If JLL is your prime reference point there are easier ways of getting a six-star wine: 2016 Cayron and 2005 VT come to mind. Mind you, the alignment of every major critic is unusual.


Good job I got 6 x 2016 Cayron coming next year then!


Ah but Jancis’ Rhone reviewer would say you (and I - I have a TWS case and one from another merchant) have got it wrong! Jancis is curiously silent on the JL Chave 2015.

Wine scores eh?!


Haha is that right. The ‘trouble’ with Jancis is that her reviews never make me want to buy the wine / she doesn’t write reviews that make the wine seem appealing. She also often writes the reviews with a slight sarcasm which doesn’t help either - look out for that. Other than that I have some of her books which are great.


I have discovered a rule that if JLL likes it, I will too. If he likes it and Richard Hemming doesn’t, I will absolutely love it!


I like J L-L, his “writing” is a little eccentric and at times does require a translator, but nonetheless I have great respect for him and I get the gist of his thought process.

I think Jeb hinted correctly regarding Cayron 2016. He said it was in the “traditional” style rather than a modernist one. Personally, I can get on with both. I have consumed Cayron for very many years as have I Raspail-Ay. In fact the latter’s 1990 was one of my favourite wines ever and really got me into Gigondas.

In my opinion, I respect any critic who is prepared to put his head above the parapet. That is how Robert Parker made his reputation, swimming against the conventional tide of opinion and lauding the 1982 Bordeaux vintage.

J L-L has been prohibited from Jaboulet, for some perceived slight. I want my reviewer not to be inhibited by owners of estates. J L-L and Jeb Dunnuck publish early and are not afraid to award high and low scores, there are those who publish late and compress their scoring which makes it more difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff!


I didn’t know that. I’ll dig out JLL’s ‘Wines of the Northen Rhone’ and try and find out what happened there.