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Red Burgundy Pinot Noir alternative

request

#21

I seem to remember having that a while back, it was indeed rather nice :slight_smile:


#22

I used to by this one by the crate. Absolutely sensational, and that’s without even taking the price into account. We want more of it!! Urgently!!


#23

I actually recently withdrew few bottles of the entry level Stodden Spatburgunder 2015 I got from another merchant and it was sublime. Definitely up there with the best Village Burgundy I had the good fortune to have.


#24

I am not a red Burgundy drinker, due to cost- and not wanting to crave something I cannot regularly afford (the one-off purchase from time to time is lovely, but not enough to develop a palate aware of the nuances, differences and specifics of red Burgundy producers); but I have consistently enjoyed - and continue to enjoy- German Spätburgunder. I think they are such good value for money, and some of the ones I had in Germany over the years are some of my favourites reds full stop. :smiley:


#25

I once shared in another discussion, in another place, where someone asked a question about Krug champagne. “I love Krug, but the price!!! Can someone please recommend something like Krug which is more affordable?” After much learned deliberation, the consensus view was “The nearest thing to a bottle of Krug is another bottle of Krug”.

I think Burgundy is like that. Only Burgundy makes Burgundy, which is not to say that Pinot Noir from anywhere else is second-rate - it’s just different.

In terms of PN’s from elsewhere, can I add my voice to those requesting the Karl Johner Kaiserstuhl be back on the list? Great value, and accessible too.

From New Zealand - maybe I’m alone here but a find a certain “hotness”, as if the alcohol were out of balance, until you start paying north of about £20. I’m genaralising, as I once had a PN from the Canterbury area which wasn’t like that and came in at around the £14 mark. But at that sort of price (£20), you are not really seeing any price benefit over Burgundy. Perhaps those who get what I mean and know the current society offerings from NZ might be able to comment?


#26

I think this is a great alternative at a very good price. San Antonio is great as the valley runs north to south along the coast so all of it benefits from the cooling ocean and, although still ripe and juicy, there is a lovely savoury character from this that I don’t think is too dissimilar from maturing Burgundy.


#27

There’s the odd exception (Johner and Pataille spring to mind), but in general I feel that proper good pinot from pretty much anywhere has an exit velocity of about £20.


#28

True, alas! Still, it’s fun enumerating the possible exceptions.

@horsleym - thanks for that one. Some years back I had the Carignan from the TH range, which to be honest I found to be one of those glossy, ripe and oaky wines that could have come from any grape anywhere. (Though oddly enough I was discussing this with someone recently, who observed that a recent example wasn’t like that at all.) I had avoided any more of the TH range on this basis, but if they have changed - and I know that quite a few wineries are moving away from the Parkerized model - then I might give that one a look.

By the way, another one at around that price point (not carried by the Society) and may be worth a look if you come across it, is the Volcanes de Chile Tectonia PN.


#29

I have just today ordered a Pinot Noir from Patagonia of all places. I really want to see what its like. Once I’ ve tasted, I’ll report back…It is claimed to be made in a “Burgundian style”. Interesting, not all Burgundians make their PN the same…:thinking:

https://www.greatwesternwine.co.uk/producers/humberto-canale/humberto-canale-estate-pinot-noir


#30

I worked in Bath for about a year and Great Western Wine was my regular haunt. Plundered a lot of their stuff and had a lot of time for the Humberto Canale selection. I had one of their pinots - maybe not the estate one - and it had a really savoury, ‘grown-up’ feel to it.

Let us know how it goes! :clinking_glasses:


#31

I didn’t purchase from them, I didn’t realise they were an “actual store”, :rofl:… it arrives Friday so will get it open at some point. ~I think I’m more intrigued than anything.


#32

You are totally correct, NZ does offer at the top end some very good PN but it is not Burgundy nor should it be, £20 ? more like £40 +, at the bottom end most is rubbish, NZ suffers from unripe fruit in the cheaper PN and frankly is not worth buying, Chile despite being a bit on the jammy side does have ripe fruit at the lower end of the market and several I have had are good value and true to the grape in taste.
Other areas including Germany with the current better weather conditions are able to cash in on this factor and so another country can supply decent PN, it will never be Burgundy but as hardly anyone can afford the “good stuff” or get hold of it now, it is not a loss.

This Andrew Jefford article sums up the current state of Burgundy.


#33

I found this “free” article on Jancis site which again talks about the ridiculous but inevitable situation with Burgundy…

https://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/what-will-fill-red-burgundys-place

much has been said on here but there are a few pointers to alternatives.


#34

Great article! Thanks for sharing :+1:


#35

It occurred to me that a Sancerre rouge is a very good alternative to red Burgundy too! I’ve got this bottle earmarked - it’s been waiting so patiently on the rack…


:grinning::grinning:


#36

In a similar vein might be PN from the Jura and from Alsace. Though it has to be said there is even less of all these than there is of red Burgundy - just that the demand is not there (yet).

I wouldn’t leave it in your rack too long, @Inbar - like most northerly Pinot noirs, they can close down after a few years. Sadly I speak from experience. :disappointed_relieved:


#37

Thanks for the tip, @Ghost-of-Mr-Tallis! :+1:
I’m planning to open it next Sunday, to go with wild duck, so fear not! I’m on the case! (or the bottle, to be more precise :wink:)…


#38

Hunting for the less well known areas of Burgundy is one approach but even beforerecent price rises, Red Burgundy has never really priced at the lower end of the wine world. This was a reasonable bottle - not as nice as a Pataille but nice enough, in it’s own way. Out of stock for now.

https://www.majestic.co.uk/wines/givry-albert-bichot-63070


#39

I just came across these and wondered in anyone here tried Domaine Pelle PNs… I really hope that (a) they will feature at the Loire Grower’s tasting (@Tim_S) and (b) they will still be available to buy then…




#40

Ah yes we loved this. For me it was exactly how I like Pinot.