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South Africa - Platter's 5* wines


#21

There must have been very limited quantity of the Paul Sauer, after it received those reviews (not just the Platters 5*). I suspect that is why it was offered as part of this mixed case, rather than limited to 1 per member in the recent Kanonkop offer. Also this way TWS has pre-mixed cases to manage in reserves rather than single bottles.


#22

Yeah I looked on Kanonkop’s own website and its the one recent vintage they don’t have themselves to sell.


#23

All, 22 cases of this have just become available on the website, order now for delivery from July 8th…


#24

I mustn’t…:laughing:


#25

Oh go on, you know you want to…there were 23 available when I first looked…had to partake myself before it sells out again :wink:


#26

Yep thanks for the heads up… 18 cases…


#27

15 cases now… I resisted temptation to add more, happy with the one I secured yesterday.


#28

13 cases now! Thanks for the heads up!


#29

IMHO a very neat offer. Saves me a lot of bother. Heads up much appreciated. 1 case to reserves.


#30

An absolute pleasure, always happy to spread the news


#31

How peeed off am I?
I recently purchased BOTH Kanonkop vertical boxes offered and tried my hardest to buy a bottle of the fabled Paul Sauer 2015. No-one had got it! Now here it comes a mere month or so after the previous Kanonkop offer. Gutted!


#32

Think the original poster’s point is pretty easy to grasp:

  • Many people don’t have a cellar at home
  • Paul Sauer needs a lot of cellaring
  • If you put it in a mixed case with wines that need drinking sooner, then it creates a real problem for people (probably most people) who don’t have a cellar
  • If it wasn’t in this mixed case, you could keep it in Members Reserves for the time it really needs; because it’s in a mixed case, you can’t.

That’s my understanding of the underlying argument, and it seems like a fair point.

Whether mixed cases generally are a good thing is a different point. He/she’s not talking about that: he/she is talking about Paul Sauer needing a lot more time than wines its been placed with in a mixed case making it hard to keep in storage until maturity.

I love the wine soc, and I like the idea of mixed cases, but on this one I think the original poster as a fair point. It means a rare, fine wine that needs lots of cellaring can’t be cellared with TWS (unless you risk sacrificing the other bottles).

Or have I missed something?


#33

This was my exact point (although far more eloquently and clearly laid out).

To be clear:

  1. I love the TWS mixed cases (even those with short/near drinking windows).
  2. I love Kanonkop PS - and similarly to AnaGramWords bought the verticals just a month ago.
  3. I do not love it when TWS only sell kanonkop PS (which could do with 10 years of aging) in a mixed case with (very good) wines that need to be drunk in 5 years as the only method of sale.

As you point out, I don’t have a cellar and am actually on secondment overseas through until 2023 to make matters worse.

As I say MASSIVE fan of the TWS, I’m all for putting the Kanonkop PS in a mixed case to allow those who don’t want to commit to a whole case the ability to access it, just don’t make that the only route of purchase. And try not to really annoy long term customers and Kanonkop fans by doing it a month after doing a Kanonkop special where you were selling verticals.

Just my two pence worth and I would think hardly too controversial


#34

I understand your frustration about the cellaring issue, and agree it’s likely shared by a lot of members. I don’t think that’s controversial. But the tone of the OP made it sound like you had been personally insulted by TWS, and seemed like a bit of an overreaction. This may have led to others feeling the need to defend TWS/not engaging as fully.

I’m sure I’m not alone in being grateful to you for alerting me to the existence of this mixed case, and hope you find a way of getting hold of (and storing) some 2015 PS to enjoy in the future. Cheers.


#35

True.

Though I recently drank a 2003 Paul Sauer that had been lying peacefully in my understairs cupboard for the last 14 years - in perfect condition!


#36

There is another angle on this one that I was thinking about… The Paul Sauer 2015 is so hyped up that it is almost guaranteed to increase significantly in price and as @AnaGramWords has also noted it is impossible to find it on the market. If it was released on its own it would have most probably been hoovered up (especially at the price) by people who less closely observe TWS’s principles. Putting it in the mixed case has hopefully removed some of the speculators… saying that I am pretty sure that the price of that particular bottle will reach the price of the case eventually.


#37

@szaki1974 , I completely agree and understand that TWS does not want to encourage speculation, but the points that you make could be applied to a large number of wines. TWS sells many wines that one could argue have the potential to be attractive to speculators (theoretically the entirety of EP offerings), Ridge, Yquem obviously but I’m sure those with more knowledge of specific regions and specific wines could point to amazing value wines that will likely dramatically increase in price.

If the intention of TWS was to create an offering that is unattractive to speculators it would be great to hear that this was in fact the case and provide clarity.

Alternatively, as we have seen in many other situations there are plenty of other ways to limit supply to theoretical speculators. Tools I’ve seen (and I’m sure there are many more) have included:

  1. Run an EP campaign.
  2. Limit sales to 1 case, 3 bottles, 1 bottle per member.
  3. Focus offering on those who have participated in other South African offerings - Vergelegen or Meerlust EP campaigns (v.controversial I appreciate and not a route I would recommend… but one we have seen before)

Equally, these could have been included in the Kanonkop offering and Paul Sauer vertical tasting cases from late April/early May.

Looking at my personal order from back in May, it included the vertical 3 bottle (11, 12 and 13) and then a separate case of the 2014. I’m sure @AnaGramWords purchased something similar. It’s not complicated to see that by adding in a single bottle of the 2015 you would of had a 5 year vertical and I’m sure someone at TWS could have been creative in conjunction with Kanonkop (who there is a long standing relationship with) to create a full case. This would of been a lot of hassle for those just targeting the 2015.

As I say, I just thinks its confusing messaging and to an outsider it seems that little thought has gone into the sale of Kanonkop wines over the last 3 months to the detriment of supportive customers.

Once again, I have no issue with the 2015 Kanonkop - PS being offered in the mixed case to increase accessibility, my issue is just with making this the only route to purchase through TWS and also bundling it in a mix case with wines that wont age and so making it a logistical nightmare.

@laura - is it possible we could hear from the team directly on this forum as to the decision making process on the 2015 Kanonkop Paul Sauer please?

To stress I appreciate the hard work of the TWS team and thanks in advance!


#38

I know, I was simply speculating and merely offering an extra angle. I also agree with your topic starting point, save for the last sentence that sounded odd on first reading. I also think that it turned out to be a good topic of discussion, so thanks for starting it.


#39

Hi @Byrneand and all. @laura is enjoying a well-earned break today (bar one post which I’m publishing on her behalf later!) but I’ll pass this query on to my colleagues and get back to you as soon as possible.


#40

Hello again. I’ve spoken to our buyer for South Africa, Jo Locke MW, who says:

"I’m afraid we only got a small allocation of the 2015 and feared a free-for-all after its Platter’s success combined with its 100 point score from Tim Atkin. Members have been getting in touch about it since the scores were out last autumn. We deliberately excluded it from the earlier offer that included a Paul Sauer mixed case for that very reason. We could just have opted to sit on it until its scores were a distant memory, or hold it back purely for future tasting stock, but I dare say that wouldn’t have gone down well either.

"I agree that sometimes putting such a wine in a mixed case ‘to spread it further’ does not always make immediate sense, but experience shows that this does ensure that genuine enthusiasts (rather than trade or others only wishing to make a fast buck) at least have access to it because our mutual ethos means we are not allowed only to offer such wines to a select few Paul Sauer buyers. Rock and a hard place!

"What I totally agree with is the challenge re drinking windows. We try hard to put wines with more comparable drink windows in mixed cases but in this case the combination of what we had with five stars, what we knew we somehow needed to protect, and our wish to ensure a balanced mixed case of different styles, meant we failed on this front. Hands up! I think we hoped members would enjoy the other wines in due course and find a suitable corner at home for the Paul Sauer (or of course opt to draw out only a part mx and leave the PS in reserves).

“Please accept my apologies for the frustration this has caused. We will continue to learn from your feedback!”